|
| ancient
greek music |
Date:
Thu, 26 Aug 1993
From:
John Glasscock
Subject Ancient Music
Five years ago I found an lp/cd of ancient Greek music (spanning 5th
C. BC to 2d C. AD) from original sources and with reconstructed
original instruments. It appears that very much work went into
making this as authoritative as possible and the liner notes
stressed that any venture of this sort has some degree of
speculation to it. The work is "Musique de la Gre`ce antique"
by Atrium Musicae de Madrid, directed by Gregorio Paniagua and
published by Harmonia Mundi. (I got it at Ars Nova in Bloomington,
IN and have seen it in fine music stores in university towns across
the country.) I found it exhilarating and fun, although it is
nothing like anything I've ever heard before. I am sure they did
some backward extrapolation from the oldest Gregorian chants in
order to "get" some of these pieces, and I applaud their
efforts. Does anyone know of any other ancient (i.e., on THIS order
of ancient or older) music? I recall a volume by ?Graeme Barker in a
Cambridge U Press history of music series on ancient Greek music
theory. Fine stuff.
Date:
Fri, 27 Aug 1993
From:
Bob Develin
Subject
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
If
you look in detail at the treatise on music in Plutarch's Moralia,
you can reconstruct a lot. You might have to build the instruments
yourself! I used a tin whistle in class to illustrate the notes to
which Homer was chanted (?), but as they are three notes of a gapped
tetrachord, you can't do the whole bit wi thout an unfretted string
instrument (which in this part of the world suggests the unfretted
banjo - would Homer have liked that?).
Date:
Fri, 27 Aug 1993
From:
Patrick Rourke
Subject: Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Ancient
Music -- M. L. West has a very fine, authoritative book on all
aspects of Ancient Greek Music, including transcriptions and
discussions of theory and instrumentation. Unfortunately, it is
$98.00 from OUP. I've also seen a new books on Anc Egyptian Music,
which I didn't take the time to go over (but which was more
reasonably priced and seemed aimed at a more general readership).
Unfortunately, I don't remember the title.
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993
From:
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
I'm glad someone picked up this string. My system has been doing
bizarre things lately so I missed the last note on ancient music.
I'd like to recommend a CD. It is called ANTHOLOGY OF BYZANTINE
SECULAR MUSIC by Christodoulos Halaris. The labl is Orata Ltd and it
is #ORAANT 001. Something tells me this is a private pressing. There
is no further info about the label, distributor, etc. The cover says
SAMPLER and FIRST RECORDING EVER. Be that as it may, the music on it
is absolutely beautiful. One piece is identified as pagan. Is anyone
out there interested in ancient and medieval (or even Renaissance)
music?
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From: Jamieson Norrish
Subject: Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Indeed
I am, and just this morning I had a very brief listen to a CD of
Ancient Greek music. It was supposedly an individual interpretation
of various fragments, including a few bars by Terence. I must say
that it didn't appeal to me, although it was only the briefest of
incomplete hearings. Much more to my liking is medieval and
Renaissance music, particularly Gregorian chant. My personal
collection is relatively small in this area, but there is a nice
range from some "Crusade era" songs to Elizabethan street
ballads.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
E C O'Gorman
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece I
In answer to question, Yes! I am v. interested in ancient -
renaissance music, and anything that falls in between, and also have
to confess to some surprise that more classicists aren't (so that we
could have a departmental recorder group, for example). My
theoretical knowledge is very sketchy, however, having been compiled
from various comments dropped by learned tutors when trying to
improve my interpretation of pieces. What we have been considering
here in Bristol is metre through music (Horace with bongoes!)
seminars. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Martha J. Payne
Subject: Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Picking
up on Bernard Sypniewski's thread on music. The video which was sold
at the time of the touring of the Greek exhibit highlighting the
Archaic period (I can't remember the title off hand) back in 1989,
has some of the reconstructed ancient music on it which I think is
on the Ancient Music recording mentioned earlier. There is a very
nice sequence showing one of the Archaic _korai_, a reading of a
poem by Sappho and intriguing music in the background. In connection
with Byzantine music - the music of the Orthodox church is Byzantine
-- complete with the Byzantine musical notation system. I heard some
wonderful antiphonal Byz music at a couple of churches in Athens in
July. You might want to give it a try the next time your get to
Greece.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Owen Cramer
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Does
anyone know more about Gregorio Paniagua (who did that Musique de la
Grèce antique disk for Harmonia Mundi)? I bought it and play
it from time to time, heard it used in a striking "Medea"
here 7-8 yrs. ago as incidental music (actually I must have
recommended it to the producer, but don't tell ASCAP/BMI or
whoever). But there's this hyped reverb and all the extra percussion
making it to my ears a little fake. The *old* Oxford Hist. of Music
had a set of records of the musical exx. with a good plain (western
trained) soprano rendition of the Delphic Hymns and the Seikelos
inscription (not as resolutely 6/8 as it is sometimes done but it's
obviously the most singable of the extant stuff, and quite lovely--I
teach it to students and many of them like it too).
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Jenny S. Clay
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
I stumbled on the same CD in Greece. There are several volumes and I
would be interested in knowing more about Chalaris. I shall talk to
a colleague here at Virginia, who is supposed to be the world's
expert on Byzantine music, and report back. I have no idea whether
the disks are available here.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Bob Develin
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Since we now have a start and mention of street ballads, I can
declare my own interest in medieval etc music but particularly in
folk music and its adjuncts, one of which is street balladry or
broadside ballads. While I don't have much in the way of recordings
any more, I do have a largish collection of printed material. I've
performed this stuff over many years, sung songs from the 17 th
century on to history classes, given an academic seminar on religion
and folk mu sic, conducted workshops at folk festivals on
broadsides, songs of the Industrial Revolution and "The Scots
Musical Museum." Is another monster unleashed? Bob Develin,
Ottawa.
Date
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Bob Develin
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Since
Horace has now come up too, you'll know that the only poem in Latin
in the pesionicus a minore is Hor. Odes 3.12. You may not have
figured out that Le onard Cohen, with his classical education,
adapted it for "Susan." (Or is that "Suzanne?).
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Jenny S. Clay
Subject
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece Meter and Music
We
do a little song and dance in my undergrad Hoarce and Catullus
courses. Also tried a few Anacreontics along with the Skolia in
Greek Lyrik. I enjoyed it and think the students did too. Nothing
authentic, just mnemotic.
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Bob Develin
Subject:
music
Sorry,
but the old mind don't work in sequence on weekends. In trying to
give students outside Classics an idea of metre, I illustrated
iambics by using Chuc k Berry and hexameter by using the traditional
ballad stanza, as it contains th e same range of syllables as two
hexameter lines. Not to mention Carl Orff's " Catullus" -
which I won't mention.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From: Bernard Sypniewski
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
There
is a very good selection of music from the times of the various
Crusades on an album called (I think) Music of the Crusades by David
Munro and the Early Music Consort. Anything by this group is
excellent, authoritative and highly listenable. Can anyone verify
the etymology of the word 'stampede' as coming from the medieval
dance called an 'estampie' or an 'estampida'? Jamie, are you
familiar with Machaut?
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Major
suggestion reconstruct a kitharos. It is a good research project.
The major source of information is NOT written. It is the sculptures
(primarily) and paintings. As I recall there are some useful bronzes
from Pompeii (Apollo mostly). I actually did a paper on this once
even though I concentrated on the Northern European Lyre. DO NOT
analogyze the kitharos to the Egyptian Harp. If you do, I will send
a terrible virus over the wire. Organilogically, the harp and the
lyre are two very different instruments with different capabilities.
The Greeks DID NOT like the harp. It was too exotic (read Egyptian)
for their tastes. Nero did not play a fiddle while Rome burned,
either . Depending on which slander you believe, it was either a
kithara (he was a noted kitharode, if only to himself) or a
primitive form of bagpipe. I tend toward the kithara myself. Since
he played in one of the amphitheatres, folks would have known what
he played. If he had played the bagpipes (an instrument dear to my
heart and lungs), the populi would have known that the Christians
didn't start the fire because it would obviously had been a case of
spontaneous combustion.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
For
those who care about such things Byzantine notation originated with
(I hope I'm spelling this correctly) what appears to be Chironomy, a
form of notation for a choir leader so that he could make the
appropriate hand gestures to the choir. It is very difficult to
decipher. I agree with Marny that Byz music is beautiful.
Date:
Sun, 29 Aug 1993
From:
Jamieson Norrish
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Indeed,
I believe I have this very recording, and you are right in saying
that it is very good. Are there any other recordings from this same
period which are worthwhile? Most of the early music I can find
which is pre-Renaissance is Gregorian chant which, while very
enjoyable, isn't the whole picture.
Date:
Sat, 28 Aug 1993
From:
Jenny S. Clay
Subject: Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Try
Planctus from the series Reflexe (EMI) and Musik des trecento um
Jacobo da Bologna in the same series (Gand prix du disque) And, of
course, Machaut and the School of Notre Dame, but try Carmina Burana
(also GPdu D) by the Studio der Fruehen Musik. I don't know which or
if these have been remastered on CDs. But they're all great treats.
Date:
Sun, 29 Aug 1993
From:
Martha J. Payne
Subject Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Especially
to JSC - I'd like to know who the world expert on Byz music is. I
have a friend who teaches music at Butler. In addition to this she
is also the Psaltria at the local Greek Orthodox church, and has
studied Byz music in Thessalonike; I'm sure she would be glad to
know of a specialist in the States.
Date:
Sun, 29 Aug 1993
From:
Martha J. Payne"
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Actually, once the Byz notation system is explained, it makes
perfect sense. From my friend at Butler, I understand it is a matter
of voice up, voice down, and hold. I'm sure there is more to it than
that, but it is interesting to think that that is sort of what the
Ancient Greek accent marks were for too. I wonder if there is a link
between the sing-song speech of the ancient Greeks and the fact that
Orthodox services are always sung. Just musing.
Date:
Sun, 29 Aug 1993
From:
Dale Grote
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Now
just a minute! These compilations of "Ancient Greek"
music; aren't they rather interpretations of Greek things by
contemporary musicians or composers with Middle-Eastern sounding
licks thrown about to make them sound odd? I once picked up a glossy
Delphi book and was astonished to see a Greek song written up just
like a modern song. A closer look however revealed that it was utter
nonsense -- written in 13/7 time and notes that never added up to 7
in a bar... I mean, we don't *really* know what Greek songs were
like, do we? I've always supposed that our loss of Greek music --
i.e. the tunes -- was about 100 per cent. I'd like to be wrong on
this.
Date:
Sun, 29 Aug 1993
From:
Jenny S. Clay
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
I believe I once heard W.B. Stanford suggest that the rise and fall
of the voice on certain long syllables in Byzantine chant were
similar to the circumflex accent in ancient Greek. However, it
occurs to me that song and speech are different.
Date:
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From:
Martha J. Payne
Subject:
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
As
far as the tunes for ancient Greek music goes, I know there is some
kind of musical notation inscribed with text on a block in the
Delphi museum. I think it is a hymn to Apollo. What I would like to
know is if anyone has figured out how the notes correspond to our
modern system.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Bob Develin
Subject
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
At
the risk of boring, I can't give details offhand, but there's a fair
amount recorded from the troubadors. And if you do find this stuff
dull dull dull, ha ve a look at some of the lyrics of Elizabethan
songs (and beyond) - it's pretty raunchy stuff.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Patrick Rourke
Subject
Fragments of Greek Music
Almost 100 percent isn't 100 percent. See West's ANCIENT GREEK
MUSIC. About 40 framgents.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Interesting
thought... my comments were on the notations in some early manuscrip
ts but if there is a way of deciphering the stuff, I'd sure like to
know about it.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
It's
my understanding, admittedly not my recent understanding, that there
was very little Gk music in any form of notation left. I seem to
recall somethin g from a column from Tralles, a snatch of chorus
music from one of Euripides' plays and a few other things. We don't
have any *Kithara Made Easy* texts nor even any detailed
descriptions of any song. I *suspect* that the ancients may not have
differentiated between the 'melody/accompaniement' and the words but
rather considered them as a whole. Personally, I think any analogy
between ancient Gk or Roman music and modern Near Eastern Music is
shaky. There is a substantial difference in intent between the two.
There *may* be an analogy between ancient Gk * RM music and
Gregorian chant but the argument twists a bit.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
I think there are guesses but nothing conclusive. I think you're
right about it being a hymn to Apollo. The notation as I recall it
is a letter notation but the letters don't necessarily have anything
to do with pitch. The problem with ancient notation is that it
really isn't notation; it is a form of shorthand for reminding
(probably) a song leader of the tune. Most early notation does not
contain the information that modern music notation contains and,
from what we know of ancient performance, there are different
expectations of the performers. Ancient and Medieval music seems
almost improvisitory at time s; rigid at others. Imho, people who
are trained in the European classical tradition have a very hard
time with ancient music because they expect everything to be laid
out for them. One tip distrust any score that is in modern notation.
For *most* medieval music, it doesn't work. The music should be
stressed like the words rather than vice versa.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Owen Cramer
Subject
Re Fragments of Greek Music
Not
a disk, but let me recommend Erich Werner's _The Sacred Bridge_, not
a new book but a beautiful one. He taught liturgical music at Hebrew
Union College and his purpose in the book is to show the
continuities between Hebrew chant and Byzantine/Gregorian.
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Patrick Rourke
Subject
Fragments of Greek music More info on West ... M.L. West, Ancient
Greek Music, Oxford 1992 $98.00 Discussions by a noted philolgist of
all aspects of Ancient Greek music -- theory, instrumentation,
ethnology, history, notation. Includes transcriptions (ie.
conversions from AGk notation to modern notation) of all substantial
fragments of Ancient Greek music ] (somewhere between 20 and 40 in
number), including a detailed discussion of the Apollo hymn already
mentioned, fragments from Euripides' ORESTES and IPHIGENIA AT AULIS,
and a few early Christian songs. Near Eastern Music ... On what
authority, and with what evidence, do the various contributors base
their conclusion that there was little in common between ancient
Greek music and near eastern music? Compare the depictions in vase
paintings of auloi, kithara, etc. with similar if not identical
instruments in use in the past and present in the near east. Also
note that Ancient Greek music was a very dynamic tradition, which,
based on what we know of listeners' reactions to compositions by the
same musicians over a matter of decades, was marked by innovation
and massive changes in style, medium, even philosophy and theory.
(See various descriptions of e.g. Philoxenus and Timotheus in
Edmonds, how the recption of these musicians seems to have changed,
not unlike reception to modern popular and classical composers and
performers)
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
Re Fragments of Greek music
The
basis of the idea that ancient Gk & Rm music is not like near
eastern music is this much near eastern music (meaning near eastern
music of the post Arabic times) comes from a significantly different
tradition, Arabian, Persian, Central Asian, etc. than the music of
Greece and Rome. If you want to analogize Gk & Rm music to its
*contemporary* NE music, you are on a much firmer footing. However,
it should be noted that the surviving art & literature from both
areas shows considerably different usage. For example, Gk & Rm
kitharodes are almost always accompanyists (however, note Demodicus
in the Odyssey). Graeco-Roman musicians always appear in small
groups. In the NE (Babylonia, the Hittites, etc) musicians appear in
larger groups (one hesitates to use the term orchestra). Music in
the NE inscriptions etc usually appears in the context of some
grandiose event or as entertainment at noisy parties (e.g. when John
the Baptist lost his head). Egyptian music may be a different animal
based on indiginous traditions, at least from the illustrations
Date
Mon, 30 Aug 1993 1
From Fred Beihold
Subject
Greek Music
Has
anyone attempted to reconstruct what Pythagorian Music may have
sounded like? I'd be interested in hearing various artists and
historians ideas of how this music may have sounded. Wasn't it a
scale based on the number 5, or am I thinking of "Pentagonal
Music"?
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bob Develin
Subject
Re Greek Music
Does
Fred Beihold mean pentatonic music, as with the Chinese? Such an
analogy might be productive; some British traditional music is
pentatonic. Or is he r eferring to Pentangle?
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Fred Beihold
Subject
Pythagorian Music
In
response to Bob Develin I just threw out the term "Pentatgonic"
music as a far-fetched corruption of "Pythagorian" music
-- an agonizingly fuzzy pun. I guess there are some 5 tone scales
(myxolydian, etc.), but any con- nections between "Pentagonic"
music and actual types of music is accidental. Thinking of "Pythagorian"
music, which I really am interested in, stimulated me to try to
invent yet another hertofor undiscovered musical scale. The
songbirds, you know, don't follow the "physical" or "tempered-
musical" 12 tone scales, as a rule. Even so, such music is
often melodious -- for example. It may be possible to reconstruct
Pythagorian music, in a way, by find- ing out what works and what
doesn't work, based on the fragmentary information at hand. This
would involve going through lots of possible music that didn't quite
"work". Such music would exist, even if it wasn't good,
and if good communications is one to one mapping to possibility
naming such rejects could serve a purpose. The generic name I gave
to such rejects in the search for Pythagorian music was "Pentagonal".
That's all.
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bob Develin
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
Now I'm more confused than ever. Does mixolydian (in the modern, not
ancient usage) really have only 5 tones? Interesting (?) that the
medieva l Church frowned upon the Ionianmode (i.e. C major), calling
it the "modus lasc ivus," i.e. common folks liked it and
that was a no no. How strange the change from minor to major. Do you
then send all the rejects to the Pentagon? It might explain a lot.
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
John Franklin
Subject Re Pythagorian Music
In
modern usage mixolydian mode is an 8 note scale running from sol to
sol - for example, a C major scale played from G to G.
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
wilm@LEGACY.CALVIN.EDU
Subject
Re Greek Music (and Byzantine)
According
to a colleague of mine in Music, those who are interested in
Byzantine music should also see the work of Oliver Strunk and Velos
Velomirovic in the _Journal of American Musicology_, whjjich would
provide a handle on the research into the 70's. (I guess there is an
index to this journal.)
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Rasputin Subject Re Pythagorian Music
Thanks.
That's what I thought. White notes of the piano, n'est-ce pas? From
C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian. Do F and B
figure?
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject Re Greek Music
Actually,
Pythagoras is credited with discovering the octave. From what I
know, Pythagoras talked about music but not in the sense of an art
form but, rather, in relation to mathematics/philosophy. Pythagoras
is credited (probably correctly, assuming that there actually was a
Pythagoras) with discovering the idea of the interval and setting
the "scale" as a set of intervals which doubles in pitch
(cycles per second) every octave.
Date Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
Re Greek Music Pentatonic.
There
are some similarities to pentatonic music in some of the modes.
Date Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
For those who care If you'll note, the 'flat sign' is rounded and
the sharp sign # is sort of prickly. Apparently, the medievals
thought that what to us is a flat sounded 'rounded' and pleasing and
the sharp notes sounded harsh.
PS but alot of medieval stuff fits into F anyway.
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
discography
I promised (threatened) to post a discography of
ancient/medieval/renaissance music the other day. I kicked aside the
dog and got to somerecords. Here's what I found
For
modern Turkish musicTurkey-A Musical Journey Nonesuch Explorer
Series H 72067Ge neral ChantPolyphonic Motets - Gregorian Chants the
Benedictine Monks of St. John's Abbey, Liturgical Press (Ambrosian
chant, GC, very good Renaissance motets - Palestrina, Vittoria,
etc.)Easter on Mount Athos Archiv #2533 413 vol.1 (anybody know of
vol. 2) Greek Orth. Easter Vigil service complete with tuned
boards.Laudate Dominum Columbia P14166 (singing Trappists!)Gregorian
Chants for the Feast of Corpus Christi Monks of St. John's Abbey,
Liturgical PressGregorian Chants - Elegies for Ki ngs & Princes
Deller Consort (great group) Everest 3452 (Mozarabic chant - elegy
for Willia the Conq.) -Tenth Century Liturgical Chant in
Proportional Rhythmn (no longer GC) SChola Antiqua - Nonesuch H
71348The Worcester Fragments (at least s ome of those saved from
becomming lampshades) Accademia Monteverdiana Nonesuch H-71308
(contains the great Alleluia Psallat - which the group I played with
insisted on calling the Alleluia Salad - when we dressed up, it was
called Alleluia Salad Dressing )Plainchant & Polyphony from
Medieval Germany Schola Antiqua Nonesuch H 71312Francesco Landini
Hortus Musicus (Kamarata Musika) Melodya S10-07935-36 Caution - this
is a Russian record purchased from an emigre - the group is called
Hortus Musicus in English (on the jacket) but Kamarata Musika in
Cyrillic. This is a great album and the only album solely devoted to
Landini.The world of Adam de la Halle "" The Cambridge
Consort Turnabout TV-S 34439 (Lots of troubador stuff)Roman de
Fauvel Studio de r Fruhen Musik Reflexe C 063-30103 (the first
musical since the fall of the R.E.)Songs of Love & War Music of
the Crusades Early Music Consort of London, Argo ZRG 673 (absolutely
great)Medieval Music & Songs of the Troubadors Musica Reservata
Ever est 3270Harp Music from the Middle Ages La Camerata Candide QCE
31083Medieval Renaissance Music for the Irish & Medieval Harp,
etc Turnabout TV 340195Guillaume de Machaut Messe de Nostre Dame und
Mottetten Capella Antiqua Telefunken SAWT 9566- 13 6.41125 AS (this
is the first mass written entirely on one musical theme. it was
written at a time when the latin canon was just becoming fixed. this
was also Machaut's only mass.)Guillaume de Machaut Chansons 1 (is
there a 2?) Studio der Fruhen Musik Reflexe C063-30106 (These two
albums are an absolute must)Music from the Court of Burgundy
Nonesuch H 71058Johannes Ockaghem Missa Ma Maistresse etc. Pomerium
Musices Nonesuch H71336Organ Music of Girolamo Cavazzoni Gerald
Farrel Liturg ical Press LPS 8146- 0015Guillaume Dufay - Missa Ecce
Ancilla Domini etc Pomerium Musices Nonesuch H-71367Music of
Guilaume Dufay Early Music Consort of London Seraphim S-60267 (You
must listen to these two, especially this one)The Glory of Gabri
elli E. Power Biggs (not just organ music) Columbia MS 7071Josquin
de Pres The Josquin Choir Vanguard/the Bach Guild HM 3 SDIsaac - des
Pres - Lasso Nonesuch H-71084 (any Isaac is worth listening to)Lasso
- St. Matthew Passion Swabian Chor ale Dover 97268-2Renaissance
Music for Brass Brass Ensemble Nonesuch H 71111 (fun rather than
authentic)The High Renaissance Elizabethan Age Archive ARC 3064
14501 APMThe English Lute - Music of Dowland & Byrd (proves that
people from Pittsbur g can play music) O'Dette Nonesuch H71363Awake
Sweet Love (Dowland) Deller Consort Vanguard/Bach Guild BGS
70673Triumphs of Maximillian I Early Music Consort of London,
London/Treasury STS 15555 (Great album - assemble the Dover edition
of the tri umphal arch and march through it to this stuff - this
album includes the great 'Innsbruck, ich muss dir lassen' - when
somebody writes something this good about leaving Detroit, we will
have a civilization worth the name)Recorder Music of Six Centuries
Recorder Consort of the Musicians Workshop Classic Editions CE
1018COllections Art of Courtly Love Early Music Consort of London 3
records Seraphim SIC 6092 (if you only want a small med. music
collection this is it) An Evening of Elizabethan Mus ic Julian Bream
COnsort RCA Victor LO 2656 (see comment above - change the music
type to Elizabethan) The Seraphim Guide to Renaissance Music
Syntagma Musicum of Amsterdam Seraphim SIC 6052 (3 records) - vocals
better than instrumentalsHope this helps those who want to listen to
this stuff. There are a few other things around the house, mostly on
tape some other Gabrielli, other chant (Maronite & Coptic
primarily), etc. Anybody interested in Oriental music (India to the
Pacific)?
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
"Daniel P. Tompkins"
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
Is
Pentagonic music what Zola had in mind (was it he?) when he said
military justice is to justice as military music is to music?
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From Walter Moskalew
Subject Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
As
for Machaut, a couple of years ago some music graduate students at
Indiana University put together a ranked list of the world's
greatest composers (using a complicated set of criteria) and he came
out #1. I believe Monteverdi was ranked #5 (great stuff, especially
his *Orfeo*). Of course, this kind of ranking is a bit silly, but it
does remind us that there was great music long before Bach. ,
Date
Tue, 31 Aug 1993
From
Virginia Knight
Subject
Re Ancient Music from Ancient Greece
Re Stanford Stanford's own recording of the opening lines of the
_Odyssey_ shows that he took the Byzantine chant analogy for accents
very much to heart. It's definitely on the song side of the
speech/song divide.
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
Virginia Knight
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
F is the Lydian mode, I think. For a 'modern' example, try the
middle movement of Beethoven's string quartet in A minor, Op. 132. I
don't think there was a mode that started on B, or if there was it
existed only in theory and was never actually used.The reason is
that the fourth note after the tonic (going up) is not a perfect
fifth but a diminished fifth - the so-called 'diabolus in musica'.
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
Virginia Knight
Subject
Re Greek Music
Apologies
if this has been out. I haven't received it so am posting again Re
Stanford Stanford's own recording of the opening lines of the
_Odyssey_ shows that he took the Byzantine chant analogy for accents
very much to heart. It's definitely on the song side of the
speech/song divide.
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
"R. C. Ketterer"
Subject
"ancient" music
Since the music issue seems to one that has caught a lot of
attention out there, and W. Moskalew has now invoked the name of
Monteverdi, I note that there will be a panel on Monteverdi's operas
(incl the lament from Arianna) at the APA this December.
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
John Franklin
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
White notes from F to F are Lydian mode White notes from B to B are
Locrian mode But it's all kind of bogus
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
Bernard Sypniewski
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
Perhaps
it was the times, but I was kind of outraged when I found that the
Pentagon didn't levitate. I didn't know whether it was some sort of
capitalist trick or a lack of intensity on the part of the
resistence.
Date
Wed, 1 Sep 1993
From
Dale Grote
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
Bob Develin, asking about F and B modalities In jazz applications at
least, f and b _do_ figure. We say this C (lst degree) Ionian D (2nd
degree) Dorian E (3rd degree) Phrygian F (4th degree) Lydian (raised
4th) G (5th degree) Mixo-lydian A (6th degree) Aeolian B (7th
degree) Locrian (used over half diminished chords) And you'd be
amazed how often I've read that these are "ancient Greek"
tonalities. That just can't be!
Date Thu, 2 Sep 1993
From
Bob Develin
Subject
Re Pythagorian Music
Thanks. I didn't know the modes were well known in jazz. They aren't
Greek, of course. These are the Church modes, same names as the
ancient, but different in tonality.
Date
Thu, 2 Sep 1993
From
robert c ketterer
Subject
Re "ancient" musicYes Jon Solomon on Orfeo, Avi Sharon on
Arianna, Yrs. truly on Poppea, and Mar ianne McDonald on Ulisse;
Elaine Fantham as respondent and moderator.Haven't he ard yet what
session. |
| Culled
from
classics.log9309a,
classics.log9308e, and
classics.log9308d. |
|